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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
414
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Posted - 2016.07.18 22:10:49 -
[1] - Quote
But I like Fozziesov? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
420
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 05:54:47 -
[2] - Quote
We need more applied Darwinism. Lots and lots. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
421
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:07:33 -
[3] - Quote
Towron Paboo wrote:As long as a game says that it is legal to kill newbies while they try to find out how the game works. I won't pay for something like that...sandbox or not...there should be an area where I am save, especially as a newbie.
But you were so close! You already found out an important part of how the game works: there is no area where you're safe. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
421
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:21:36 -
[4] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Towron Paboo wrote:As long as a game says that it is legal to kill newbies while they try to find out how the game works. I won't pay for something like that...sandbox or not...there should be an area where I am save, especially as a newbie.
But you were so close! You already found out an important part of how the game works: there is no area where you're safe. Well they newbie systems are safe zones kind of so that's one myth debunked straight away.
They are not. You can perfectly shoot a vet on the undock of Pator Tech school. Just can't grief the new players there. Consider the myth bunked again ;-) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
421
|
Posted - 2016.07.20 12:52:05 -
[5] - Quote
To be fair, I too ragequit like ... (can't remember lol- too long ago. 2007? 2008?), and started over two years ago on this toon.
That first month can be a real bad experience if you don't stumble by coincidence upon the right people to help you along. Is this why allegedly subs are down? I don't think so. There is more information available now than ever before, and most folks really are willing to help.
Some of them just don't want to hear it though. How many Ventures / Retrievers do you have to lose before you think "hmm... maybe this Catalyst is not my friend?", before you think "before I let the dog out, maybe I should dock up and not be AFK in space?"
At some point, eventually, a wreck has to be produced to get the point across. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
433
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Posted - 2016.07.24 01:09:58 -
[6] - Quote
Goons got you right where they wanted ;-) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
435
|
Posted - 2016.07.24 22:41:50 -
[7] - Quote
Much as I dislike the prominent trashtalk and general attitude of the perpetrators, ganking is no more or less meaningful than any other activity. We don't gatecamp for profit either; no justification is required.
In a way, I do believe a good gank or a dec as soon as you drop out of Pator Tech is the best school a player can have. Do you have the mettle to make it in New Eden?
Once you hit rock bottom, it's literally impossible to find any lower hanging fruit- yet someone's gotta pick it, right? It's like whoring on suspects getting blapped off the Amarr undock, although in both cases it is important the player realises, by preference sooner than later, some ground rules:
- stupid gets punished. - you too have guns-- you can beat them! - items are expendable. Don't grind for purple for it will *not* persist after your inevitable demise. - insurance has got you covered.
To new players this may be a shocker, but that shock has got to come at some point. Since they start off in highsec, a gank, dec, involuntarily turning suspect, getting concordokkened or accepting a mission to lowsec are likely causes. Truth be told, had said newbro jumped a wormhole and wound up in Curse, all chipper and chatty, he'd get the podexpress with our compliments too. Ain't not just a ganker thing, that.
Let's be honest here: what did a genuinly new player really lose? A ship he no doubt got for free from Aura, crappy T1 mods worth less than his uninsured ship...? Nah. What he lost is the illusion we were all going to get along-- and that's a good thing. If said player gets blown up time and time again, then he's simply not getting it or insisting on going AFK (yes, I've seen people die in their Venture to a rat and blame me because "I didn't protect them").
If a gank or a gatecamp or a wardec is enough to drive a player out of the game, that player wasn't going to stick around anyway. Training wheels got to come off some time, yes? Those that start keeping an eye out for suspicious activity to avoid making the same mistake again, read up on game mechanics, browse ISIS or EFT to find out how they died, those are going to swim some day.
This coming from one who's not exactly on good terms with CODE, mind you. If you fail to notice the flashing skulls in local and the warship heading your way....... what can I say? Some folks just aren't up for it, don't enjoy it, don't feel that urge to GitGud and someday pilot a warship of their own. That's why we have trial accounts: to try it out.
Some of those might give it a second look later on down the line, expecting 15 days of hell; find out it's not as bad as they remembered it; and stick around anyway. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
438
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Posted - 2016.07.25 00:55:24 -
[8] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:- stupid gets punished. Not any more! Now stupid is the norm. Want to play stupid...cool. CCP will hold your hand while you do it.
See, this kind of remarks always gets me. Why do you say that? How does CCP hold your hand now in a way they didn't used to before? I hear a lot of this "Eve's been dumbed down" but I haven't been around long enough to know what that means.
(by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls)
Only thing that comes to mind is Carriers refitting-on-the-fly but they've done a lot of good for caps too. Is this dumber? I don't know. Different for sure. Then again, with command destroyers they've introduced a new line of tactics we didn't have before; introducing tracking on guns and getting rid of cruise launchers on Kestrels doesn't strike me as dumber in any way either-- keeping track of tracking is actually harder, no?
Same with the changes to MWD/AB way back-- those were not only necessary fixes but also introduced a meaningful choice for both tacklers and solo pilots.
~erg~ Rambling again. You have the bandstand Teckos- fire away those examples! |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
439
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 02:59:52 -
[9] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote: (by preference examples pertinent to nullsec pls)
gank gank yawn.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
440
|
Posted - 2016.07.25 14:55:06 -
[10] - Quote
Well at least I now know that when the universe collapses and New Eden is but one constellation with the last 12 remaining players occupying it, Drac, Teckos, Pedro and me will have a final thunderdome at the sun till the end because we still won't agree who killed it.
I'm pretty sure it's you. Yes you. Stop killing the game pls. thanks. |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
484
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Posted - 2016.07.28 07:07:38 -
[11] - Quote
I have no idea what other MMO mechanics you're talking about, but I would offer a free piece of advice: if you do redeem your plex in a 'wrong' location.... why move it? Put up a sell order on the spot. People like me who use EvE-central will spot it, buy it and inject it without ever needing to transport anything.
Just a friendly piece of advice. Whenever a newbro thinks he's shafted, or about to be: DON'T CLICK ANYTHING, don't agree to anything, don't rush it. Read up on the rules at hand first before proceeding. That plex isn't wandering off on its own unless you give the go-ahead.
Additional hint for newbros: a subscription is often cheaper than a license extention.
Now, assuming they intend to sell it I also assume they just coughed up some hard cash to acquire one. Which leads me to believe the real-world value of said item is still fresh in their memory and therefore, appropriate caution goes without saying. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
493
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:24:26 -
[12] - Quote
So THIS is what vets mean when their game gets dumbed down. Now I get it Teckos, now I get it.
Consoles. For crying out loud. Do you think I have a 27 inch screen because I like consoles??
This ****** is just UmPfHhhh come on guys, the info is there. At least try to put in minimal effort? It's not like "the vets" are utterly unwilling to tell the nooblings everything they know, along with experience you couldn't possibly write down?
I'd rather CCP invest time in maintaining / developing / patching the game than in writing lengthy written works which, much like an EULA, nobody would read anyway. IF there were a manual, you'd be all like "oooohhhh but that's on page 183- tl;dr I didn't make it past page 5 until the book ran out of pretty pictures"
~sorry rant~
I love my screen. I love EvE. I'm not that old in-game, I KNOW the newbro experience. It sends exactly the right message: experiment, learn, study, adapt, improve -- then perhaps you end up on top of the food chain. THIS is the message newbros need to get. Who cares about the difference between a starbase, an outpost, an NPC station and a citadel? One day you run into something awkward, you research / google / forumpost / reddit it et voila! Another player got smarter. Tell his corp buddies about it - another 30 players got smarter. Guy makes a youtube video about it; problem solved.
This IS a player driven universe. EvE University is a player initiative and I think it's beautiful. It's amazing all this grew from a simple sandbox with basic tools. The freaking manual would be 570 pages long and it still wouldn't cover all aspects, because most of it is designed by players. Newbro doesn't know who PL is? Go ahead, tackle that Mastodon-- you'll soon find out LOL! ~wooops~ |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
512
|
Posted - 2016.07.31 20:10:42 -
[13] - Quote
I'll just leave this here.
Campers gonna Camp |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
514
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Posted - 2016.07.31 23:48:37 -
[14] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:^^ When stupidity is allowed to breed it becomes the norm; Mike Judge made an entertaining film based on that premise, it's called Idiocracy.
Oh, it's supposed to be "entertaining"? I thought it was a documentary. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
517
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 00:10:55 -
[15] - Quote
I did something really stupid yesterday! And it was fun too LOOOL ^^^ This guy is on to something here |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
520
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 13:48:41 -
[16] - Quote
"choose". Except every choice other than tank is "stupid" -- why insist on choice if all you ever say is what people should choose anyway?
This I would like to know. I have three lowslots. I don't feel like I have any choice-- an Orca gets more EHP than my triple bulkhead freighter. So there's that. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
520
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 13:53:52 -
[17] - Quote
...which we would then call "Retriever" and call that our Choice, yes? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
521
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 14:01:10 -
[18] - Quote
But we already do. You can fit a procurer (for example) for max yield, for max tank, for speed, for tackle, somewhat for DPS and even as bait. What more do you want? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
525
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 15:56:12 -
[19] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: What risk is there for a max yeild skiff? Nothing is going to bother it because it still tanks like a beast. The hulk and Mack have next to no customisation options as you can't alter the cargo on either and it's pointless getting them for their tank because you might as well get a skiff. The ships are forced into just one role simply because their bonuses and fitting give very little option to customise to your liking. The barge lineup is poorly balanced.
It risks getting ganked before it earns back its hefty price tag just for KB green or to 'discourage' the Skiffers. It's also outdone by a max yield Hulk. It risks getting either its cargo stolen (when canmining) or missing out on half the icebelt in transit (limited cargohold) It risks one of the newly introduced dread spawns. It risks dying in a ball of fire to an interceptor fleet, a hotdrop, a solo Sabre or Rapier, .....
Seriously, killing a Skiff isn't rocket science. Their DPs is laughable. Tank only delays the inevitable. They're not good at getting away; in fact they basically have to be aligned at all times-- that's a telltale sign of a ship that doesn't do very well on its own.
There is a reason Skiffs mine in flocks. On its own, it is indeed quite dead quite fast. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
525
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 16:00:02 -
[20] - Quote
I have a better idea: simply provide LESS ore in highsec. Once the belts start running out when they're stripmined, they'll turn on one another soon enough and start ganking the 'competition' themselves.
As long as there is infinite ore and ice, there is no incentive to be competitive.
Edit: same points were raised in the wardec thread: there has to be something to fight over in order to have a meaningful conflict. See where I'm going with this? |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
526
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 16:08:39 -
[21] - Quote
Yea. No shortage of ideas; but what would be good for you and me would be totally unacceptable for others. CCP is tightrope walking the middle-of-the-road and that's on overall, not bad. There's something for everyone yet impossible to please everyone.
It's a good thing we can all move to those areas of space we love best, ain't it? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
526
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 16:16:01 -
[22] - Quote
Agreed. Can't help but wonder how many of those are actually nullsec alts earning a buck to fund their PvP though... The logs show nothing. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
528
|
Posted - 2016.08.01 16:44:50 -
[23] - Quote
Nah. I have a covetor with only two strip miners because I like the third slot for a cloak.
Doesn't really matter as CCP has a barge rebalance in the pipeline, but do you know what I really miss? The scythe of olde. A proper cruiser with mining capabilities. There might be a niche for armed haulers and armed miners... guess we'll have to wait and see on that one. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
534
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 16:55:17 -
[24] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If ganking is such a big problem then why is it having such an insignificant impact on the largest freight organisation? Finally! Baltec said something I can agree with: it's massively blown out of proportion and I don't think it's why players are leaving.
Highsec lawyering could go on for decades with more and more amendments, exceptions and bugfixes in each patch; and it'd still just feel like "highsec". Unlike in the real world, the additional regulations are intentionally kept simple and mostly just, leading to an on-overall better experience... but it's simply not even close to being a major factor in player retention.
In fact I think it is the danger, not the safety that keeps people hooked; and the safer EvE gets, the less exciting it becomes. Safety comes from things such as travelceptors, jumpfreighters, nullified cloaky T3s, pre-aligned bears, POSsed Orcas, unprobably boosters, acceleration grid regulations (no cyno, no warp-ins), instawarp T3 destroyers, ... and the harder it becomes to actually get a fight or at the very least a kill?- the more time we spend doing uneventful, boring stuff.
Like roaming 68 jumps before FINALLY running into a living soul that is not an interceptor. Like camping for hours knowing full well that anything worthwhile will either jumpfreighter through or take a jump bridge.
The better part of this thread was wasted -as usual- on highsec shennanigans but when will someone address the LACK OF TARGETS?
The latter has several culprits, one being nowadays better PCs allows everyone and their uncle (except ole' Brokkies rustbucket) to multibox with dual or triple screens. Meaning there are eyes everywhere- and whenever something *might* happen, nope: they be long gone. Add to this the aforementioned mechanics standing between you and catching your prey, and it becomes indeed hard to find that 'good fight'. It practically requires one of the fleet commanders to get a scan on the hostile fleet, and to go for it anyway knowing full well they're probably heading home in an egg.
Was it always like this? I don't know. All I know, is that we have to put in real and prolonged effort to get a couple of minutes of excitement, and that I've seen several good pilots slip into inactivity because of that. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
537
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 18:57:57 -
[25] - Quote
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:And we circle back to the beginning...
How does the true new player (flying whatever new flavor of entrance miner) mystically know what to look for to avoid getting ganked by a pilot that has decided that Lulz & Tears is better currency than ISK?
He dies once or twice. Then he knows.
|
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
538
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 19:48:29 -
[26] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:And we circle back to the beginning...
How does the true new player (flying whatever new flavor of entrance miner) mystically know what to look for to avoid getting ganked by a pilot that has decided that Lulz & Tears is better currency than ISK?
He dies once or twice. Then he knows. What stops you from just pointing, shooting once, without killing him, and then telling him what he did wrong? You will loose your ship anyway and get nothing back.
Dude I don't even bother with highsec belts, rookie ships, capsules, ventures, shuttles or whatever else people are flying unless I perceive them as a threat or an immediate target. I'll open fire on a suspect or criminal if I happen to run across one but you don't expect me to hug every venture along the way to make sure they are feeling okay mmm?
When I see a miner I also do not get this urge to kill it dead and club it till it unsubs. I've actually done just what you described on multiple occasions in nullsec: pointed them, shot them through shield, then ran off to assist friends who had tackled something far more interesting. Out of the kindness of my heart.
Did you know I've even reimbursed several obvious rookies (rifters, algos, a probe and a venture who was apparently unaware of the inner workings of drag bubbles) as soon as I glanced over the killmails and saw they must have took a wrong turn and wound up a little too far from Heimatar?
Nah man. Barking up the wrong tree here. When I do shoot someone completely out of their league I reimburse, open a convo and try to help them along and do you know what they do? They either close convo, start insulting me or put a bounty on my head hoping their merc friends will come show me the error of my ways. Only once did such a victim take my advice and thank me for it. ONCE. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
538
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 20:02:59 -
[27] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote: I'm not accusing anyone of anything. It's just that there are more ways to learn by dying. There are a lot of fine people out there. It's just that many seam just to be scared to admit that they are not ultra cool and hard hearted.
Restraint adds character to a character. Practice it in moderate doses though |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
541
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 23:04:38 -
[28] - Quote
Which is obviously the best anyone can do and a helluvalot better than guesstimating some assumption and building upon that. Aye? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
543
|
Posted - 2016.08.02 23:12:21 -
[29] - Quote
Someone in a retriever once stole captain Hookbill's crates of rhum and they're getting murderzoned on the seven highsec seas ever since.
And me? I'm still looking for me glass eye lad. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
551
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 18:25:09 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: It also failed in its primary goal, the mod is still a must have on everything that fitted them before. Not only that but the protection offered by it is slightly improved on the T2 and greatly improved with the faction variants. So in the end they are more must have than before and ships like the Anshar suddenly got the tank of another freighter dumped onto its already massive tank for no reason (it couldn't even fit a DCU). It was a terrible change and a prime example of why blanket buffs/nerfs are a terrible idea when it comes to ship balance.
I for one changed my fitting habits when that DCU change hit.
But on topic of freighters (because we really can't seem to talk about anything else these days), the EHP is still lower than an Orca and considerably lower than a capital ship. Yet it IS a capital ship.
Both you and Drac sure cry a lot so I'm thinking everything is fine in EvE. "back in the good old days my 2 mil destroyer could elite PvP a 260 mil exhumer in under 20 sec" -- surely you have to realise how entitled that sounds? Oh gosh, darn, look at all these nerfs! We need an additional alt to keep an unconsequential point on a capital ship. And they improved the tank on said capital ship to double that of a battleship to boot, yipes! People are even complaining about us exploitlooting without suspect flag. Does nobody think of us poor gankers? We barely turn a profit anymore even though we can still afford to shoot empty triple bulkhead freighters for lulz.
I smell entitlement boys. All this has been studies extensively, corrective measures were taken. You cannot adjust balance between two opposing sides without affecting the gameplay for either one. What happened to "adapt or die"? Bears have adapted: they fit their bulkheads, most don't AFK, they'll fly tank over yield... this is what you wanted, no?
You can now reap the rewards of your efforts by stripmining highsec in high-yield Hulks, and blowing up the competition when they dare to swap their skiffs and procurers back to macks. By forcing everyone to fly triple bulkhead freighters, you could turn a tidy profit by hauling more cargo faster in expanded hold fit warp speed accelerated freighters. ... or you can just keep harping on about how everyone flies tanky barges nowadays. |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:31:30 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Both you and Drac sure cry a lot so I'm thinking everything is fine in EvE. "back in the good old days my 2 mil destroyer could elite PvP a 260 mil exhumer in under 20 sec" -- surely you have to realise how entitled that sounds?
That same catalyst will solo any 250 mil t2 or t3 cruiser. The one and only reason it worked was because miners fitted no tank at all. LOL? Solo a recon, a HAC or even a T3 cruiser in a catalyst?? Dude. Please. You can't even solo a Rupture with it. Now scoot. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:38:17 -
[32] - Quote
Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true.
Back then.
If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:49:36 -
[33] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! There are lots of miners fitting no tank nor paying attention.
Then shoot them. With my blessings- godspeed! Working as intended, that.
This, however, is taking us away from the "CCP is fitting their ships for them" complaint or the "but they keep nerfing my playstyle". Are you telling me the targets are still there and therefore that playstyle is still valid? Then we are in agreement. Nothing to see here, move along. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
552
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 19:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ahaaaa LOL yea that may be true. Back then. If they still do so today, by all means blow 'em up Sir! Thats the funny thing. If you slap t2 mods onto just about any sub battleship hull, no tank mods and slip in a few cargo expanders then you will turn a profit killing them. Barges are the exception to the rule.
How do you figure? I take a Hurricane and fit it with 220mm vulcans, scram/web and a 50Mn AB. Damage control, gyrostab, tracking enhancer, the rest in cargo expanders.
Provided you manage to blow me up (which you won't by the way), and half of that drops. You then have 3 cannons, a web and a gyrostab. This is profit to you?
(yes, I took a hurricane for example, as barges are twice as expensive as cruisers. So I took the least tanky higher-up. The case for a Brutix is even more ridiculous and you won't kill that one either by the way.)
I'm trying but I feel like we keep going off on tangents. It's almost like I hear your words but I don't hear what you're saying. Think I'll leave you guys discuss away although I don't understand what any of this has to do with "Every year there are less users playing". I'll stop contradicting you at every turn and just yet you have your say- true or not, is up to everyone is his own right to decide. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
555
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 21:15:24 -
[35] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Then again...asking these 2 groups to agree on anything is probably a lost cause I don't think they could agree on the proper way to fit a shuttle...
I'm beginning to see that. There's one guy saying "they turn outrageous profits", there's another saying "but it's actually more expensive than you think because :opportunity cost: so in fact we're getting poorer by the minute from all this negative profit. And then there is lolsmurf running the math on a DPS vs tank basis without taking into account they'd in fact vapourize as soon as I get a target lock. Say ... 8 seconds boys? This of course taking into account a 65 mil tornado can drop 60 mil in loot so in how far that math is viable .... bob only knows.
Think I'm ready for that shuttle now. I'll take mine nullified and cloaky please. Jumpdrive if you still have those in stock. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
555
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 22:33:03 -
[36] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:That's because you don't argue with facts and he does. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again because he is right and you are not only wrong but a liar.
baltec1 wrote: Fittings for a gank nado stands at 60 mil, total cost for the ship and fittings is roughly 135 million. Three T1 catalysts will kill it so you are spending 7 million to gank a tornado for potential profit of 60 million.
How about any of the figures he posts actually make sense?
Exhibit A Exhibit B Exhibit C Exhibit D Exhibit E Exhibit F Exhibit G
This from ZKill's frontpage. It's between 6-14 mil. If half of that drops you're looking at 3-7 mil in loot. We've had this conversation before: he'll say "it's 12 mil for a Thrasher", I quickly look 'em up on ZKill and what does my leery eye spot? 2.06 mil, of course. That's off by a rather large margin. It does not inspire confidence in any argument he might have -- and by now I don't even know what point he's trying to prove anymore.
I'm just debunking false figures for those who might take them at face value and work from there. Whenever numbers get posted and arguments spun on top of those: do take the time to VERIFY THEM people. Seriously. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
557
|
Posted - 2016.08.03 23:41:53 -
[37] - Quote
If ganking is your business and profit is important, I expect you to come up with the most cost-effective ship. Plus, a tier III battlecruiser is the worst possible example.
BUT please allow me to approach the situation from a different angle: IF it were so profitable, then why doesn't every destroyer I meet during my travels shoot at me? Why focus on those ships who are allegedly the least profitable of all?
Could it be that perhaps the argument that everything below battleship size is profitable to gank is false? Could it be that perhaps your puny destroyer would simply blow up to the combined DPS of gateguns and whatever my ship is dishing out?
"cherrypicked". LOL. I'm not picky-- please please do try. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
557
|
Posted - 2016.08.04 00:18:33 -
[38] - Quote
I don't know man. Couple of pages ago he claimed a catalyst can solo HACs and strategic cruisers. Then he doubled-back and said it had to be failfit; proceeded to assert anything sub-battleship with cargoextenders and T2 mods is profitable to gank- also false.
Not one to give up easily, he then come up with "AHA! But how about this Tornado- that's profitable right?" and while I don't disagree it's perhaps profitable (if you don't take :opportunity cost: into account, amirite?), it's not nearly as profitable as he claimed it to be. Like one eighth.
Now if you insist to take a notoriously no-tank ship and insist I fit it expensive on purpose, I don't even know what he's arguing. But it's nowhere near "anything below battleship", that's for sure. And he sure as hell won't be soloing it either.
From such a big name (the man has a doctrine named after him for crying out loud), member of the infamous Pandemic Legion, I was expecting less bullsht. I know some of you are here for popcorn but imagine for a second someone here didn't know any better and bought it all, hook line and sinker?
I don't argue when facts or personal experience support the claim, but I had to call him out on this. It's just false. All of it. You can dance around the subject some more but that won't make it true. Back to the basics: IF it were profitable YOU WOULD DO IT. Simple as that. It's a load of baloney.
You didn't expect me to formulate an argument in his place did you? Those are his goalposts that keep throttling around. Slippery devils they are, those ECCM nano goals. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
558
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Posted - 2016.08.04 05:49:03 -
[39] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: A half-assed fit skiff is not wroth ganking. Even a skiff without a tank won't be profitable.
This is why when I looked for skiff ganks for July 26 I found precisely...zero.
Nor did we find any zealots, eagles, huginns, hurricanes, tornadoes or omens ganked (to name a few). Over several days. AT ALL.
What was ganked, were mackinaws, retrievers, covetors, T1 industrials, an exequror, a venture, a crucifier, a handful of freighters and to my surprise even a rokh.
The target selection speaks volumes, really: profit has very little to do with it. Sometimes the loot fairy smiles, true. Your point? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
563
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Posted - 2016.08.04 21:58:56 -
[40] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote: should the majority not be considered typical?
is the typical EvE player a .01 ISK biomassed Jita scammer? is the typical EvE player bearing it up solo multiboxing? is the typical EvE player AFK icemining?
There are some subtle differences between how many toons are participating versus how many genuine persons are playing. Does a multiboxed bomberwing count? Do the 6 alts also count?
In a discussion entirely around profit for the last 16 pages, I would think trying to earn a buck would classify as "typical" yes. If that doesn't factor in, then what the hell are y'all even talking about?? |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
570
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Posted - 2016.08.06 02:30:48 -
[41] - Quote
thank you for that- made my day again
Keep 'em coming! |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
571
|
Posted - 2016.08.06 22:58:26 -
[42] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: For a game to compete with EVE it would have to grow like EVE. Organically. There is no company out there that's both willing (!) and able to do this, because it would demand slow growth and low population count!
^^^ THIS. New Eden is a work of art in motion. It is shaped by its inhabitants; the lore revolves around such factions as Ushra'Khan, provibloc, Band of Brothers, the Goonswarm, TEST, ..... I've never met LShock and I don't know if he still plays - yet he still lives on in song. There's still propaganda for slumbering (dead?) alliances out there. The factions in our universe, its rich and colourful history is perhaps its most important defining feature.
Right there. Could have just +1'ed but no empty quoting ;-) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
571
|
Posted - 2016.08.06 23:39:14 -
[43] - Quote
*CRAP*
busted |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
574
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Posted - 2016.08.07 18:00:37 -
[44] - Quote
Would be nice if Aura's tutorial missions would explain some of the modules and how to build a proper fit with it.
Could perhaps even be a good idea to have some more enterprising aura missions- such as "look capsuleer, I'm going to send you off to Tama/Rancer/Amamake to pick up this worthless crate and odds are you won't survive."
Many of the game mechanics remain unexplained, in fact the training seems to curbstomp around the time you get a Slasher with civilian mods. If I wanted to know what a wormhole is, Aura wouldn't be the one I'd ask. So I got a freighter now- Aura is where? My first jumpdrive cool, and word on that Aura? Of course not. Aura never passed the training herself /me thinks.
If I get into a battleship, nowhere is the popup congratulating me on my purchase and maybe warning me about how fragile tracking small stuff can be. Or, you know, maybe reference values for DPS/EHP I can reasonably expect from a battleship? Once upon a time I had a Hurricane -it wasn't even totally failfit- that cranked out a whopping 220 DPS. Whew! Little did I know as my skills picked up I'd do over 200 with a Daredevil LOL.
EvE is a game that really comes into its own or doesn't do it for you depending on who you run with at first. If you run into some good chaps, you'll learn a lot. Otherwise, nothing will ever make sense and that trial account will lapse.
If nothing else, a short introduction explaining what a ship can/should do for newbros to compare to would help. Lord knows I've tried and even succeeded once or twice in helping a newbro along... the amount of information to process at first is staggering. You may not remember or realize this anymore but it really is. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
583
|
Posted - 2016.08.08 16:31:01 -
[45] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote: Do you really think that i.e. a player that decides to mine ores for the next 4 hours will stay in front of his pc for four hours pressing dscan and checking local while mining in hisec?
Do your really think mentally sane game developers think this mining mechanic is correctly played in front of pc all time?
Because giving my honest opinion there is a incredible level of duplicity ( hypochrisy ) in all of this discussion if we are discussing of mining for hours looking your ship still in the middle of the screen while pressing dscan and so on...
What I think, is that mining is best done multiboxing. If you have to scan roids and cycle stripminers left and right, cart the minerals off, keep an eye on your booster and maybe browse the market in the meantime, you're actually doing a lot of stuff while, indeed, not really watching one particular screen. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
583
|
Posted - 2016.08.09 08:05:02 -
[46] - Quote
Every thread, there are less posters caring, why??
Because it's impossible to leave highsec. Unable to talk about anything else. Heard it all ten times before. Maybe the rest of us were too busy shooting stuff to post? idk man. I had fun playing EvE tonight and I hope y'all did too To the nay-sayers ... potatoes gonna potate. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
586
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Posted - 2016.08.09 13:08:39 -
[47] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem with mining is that you have nothing to do and more important nothing important to do. The element of danger is missing completely and so you don't have to pay attention=boredom
I propose asteroid collisions cause damage, and the miner needs to steer his vessel through like an old game of Asteroids (or Galactix)! It'll be fun I promise |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
600
|
Posted - 2016.08.10 20:19:13 -
[48] - Quote
And this is why I'm always on the run. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
601
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Posted - 2016.08.11 14:03:09 -
[49] - Quote
It's [TEST]. They made me do it! I had to upvote, sorry fam
Truth be told, I *did* upvote it because I agree. Don't look at who posts it, look at what is written there.
Owww I'm sorry for derailing: THIS is important stuff:
Wanda Fayne wrote: Nowhere do I see anyone ask simply, "What can I do to make this game better?"
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
601
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Posted - 2016.08.11 15:42:09 -
[50] - Quote
There need not be an anti-blob measure; it is normal the guys with the manpower win. But it is entirely possible to win uphill fights due to piloting skill. All is well in New Eden. |
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
610
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Posted - 2016.08.13 21:05:47 -
[51] - Quote
Manaconda Jones wrote:One of the things which always drew me to this game and has kept me coming back over the past several years is that each person determines their own fate and that in game behaviors rule the universe.
Build a corporation, organize it get some reputation, move up in the world. Move up too much, get smacked back down. It's a fun balance and it leads to a complex social and political game where there is give and take on just about every action in the game.
This has all ended over the past year and frankly it's making the game terrible. Traditional enemies, traditional friends, personal relationships and back room dealing has given away to massive payments from shady internet betting companies being the most powerful force in the game.
So, you're all for emergent behaviour and social interaction, but you despise both the emerging of civilization and mafia? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
611
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Posted - 2016.08.14 20:32:41 -
[52] - Quote
According to redfrog sources, they simply autopilot and don't accept over 1 bil's worth. The occasional losses are factored into the price. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
624
|
Posted - 2016.08.17 18:25:56 -
[53] - Quote
Who won? Too late to place bets? |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
626
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Posted - 2016.08.17 19:01:52 -
[54] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Maybe what we really need to do is a big free-for-all shuttle fight with everybody who has posted in this thread.
In true EvE style, we'd agree to such an event only to see one guy bringing a Rifter called "Minmatar Shuttle", one in a smartbombing Hurricane and one in a cloaky reaper with backup fleet in EC-P.
This will be so much fun |
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